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Romaric André is known to the watch industry as seconde/seconde/.
His clever, playful, silly customisation of watch dials – ‘I vandalise other people’s products,’ as his website cheerfully announces – began as ‘not legit’ and is now very much ‘legit’, to use his words again.
This self-proclaimed 'egoist' has been called ‘the watch world’s answer to Banksy’.
André started out by swapping the second hands on vintage watches for one of his whimsical designs, created using the free software Paint.NET – a tiny rotating Jacques Cousteau red beanie at the centre of an Omega Seamaster; a mini Millennium Falcon shooting a laser on an old Zenith chronograph – before brands started commissioning him for official collaborations.
Released for Halloween, last year’s Fifty Phantoms – a joint venture with the American independent brand Spinnaker that riffed on Blancpain’s historic Fifty Fathoms dive watch by covering the dial in tiny ghosts – sold out of its limited run of 600 the day it was announced, with another 2,300 more orders that followed.
Released for Valentine’s Day, this year’s All My Exes Are Losers, a collaboration with Timex that rearranged the TIMEX logo under the 12 o’clock position to read ‘MY-EX’ and replaced the second hand with a cartoon-style hand making an ‘L for loser’ sign as it travelled around the dial, was similarly successful.
In March, when Omega x Swatch announced its Mission To The Moonphase 'Snoopy watch'– the two brands' 22nd collaboration in 24 months – André took to Instagram to respond. In the Speedmaster font beneath a cartoon of the lazy beagle crashed out on the floor with ‘Zzz’ above his head, he wrote ‘Sleepmaster’. (That pup had been worked too hard, already.)
Other collaborations have included the ‘Bad Form’ watch with Bamford, the ‘Louis Error’ watch with Louis Erard and The Sun model for the brand Lang, a ‘democratised’ take on the prestige German watchmaker A. Lange & Söhne, whose prices can run into the hundreds of thousands.
Today seconde/seconde/ is in hot demand and in the happy position of being able to cherrypick work from the metaphorical queue forming outside his front door in Lille, France.
Talk of starting his own watch brand abounds.
Over an expansive and entertaining virtual meeting on Tuesday, André showed me his next project – a riff on a very famous watch I’m not allowed to tell you about, and the watch he’s just made for a very famous fan in America, also confidential.
Here's how our chat went down – very much edited for clarity and brevity.
ABOUT TIME: Have you always been into watches?
Romaric André: People tend to romanticise or reverse engineer the past, so I’ll try to be true to what I experienced. I remember at young age, really being physically attached with the products. I’m not bullshitting when I say that. I still remember the look of the first Swatch I got when I was, like, 10. I really enjoyed the design aspect of that watch. I’m not a nerd when it comes to deep-dives into mechanisms, the references, the evolution the brand models. But I am definitely still crazy about watches. I’ve got the little devil saying ‘Come on, they’re just fucking objects. You think it’s reasonable to get so interested in those objects, forever?' But his voice is always beaten by the excitement of scrolling on the internet. I still get goosebumps.
Your first job was in finance, right?
I was a good student at school. And when you’re a good student, you don’t really know what you’re going to do. I graduated from business school in France 20 years ago. And then, sort of following the trend, I started doing internships with PricewaterhouseCoopers, auditing financial data, and then went a little bit to banking. It was cool. But then I met a childhood friend of mine who was into product design. And I was extremely jealous because I could see him drawing products on his computer and he was able to manufacture them. He was frequently going to China, working on drones. It was civilian drones, for fun, taping you when you were windsurfing, that sort of thing. They were not being used for war.
So, you quit and got into product design?
He kept telling me ‘I see something is booming in Asia’. And it was [uber-expensive blingy phone company] Vertu – a Nokia subsidiary. I was, like, ‘Okay, you’re good in electronic devices. I'm passionate about watches’ and so we came up with the idea of being a more precious, more luxurious brand than even Vertu was. So instead of gold and diamonds, we put a tourbillon [spinning watch device used to improve accuracy] in a clamshell phone. Every time you opened and closed the clamshell, you rewound the mechanical tourbillon that was inserted into the phone. It was top notch. We got the attention of a VC fund. We ended up with a great board. Richard Mille was on the board. It was a time when anything was possible. Because Richard Mille showed the world that you could build a super high-level [watch] brand without the 100 years history. But when I look at the project now, it was crazy. The phone was €250k. Then, in 2015. the investors are saying ‘no more’.
What happened next?
I was lost. Every day I was, like, ‘I need to find an idea that does not require a team, that does not require shareholders, that does not require a business plan’. I was looking for a way to go back to my childhood. Luckily my wife was there giving me confidence. One day I was, like, ‘Okay vintage watches [are selling well]'. But I am not an expert. I’m not going to be the one you buy your vintage watch from. Then I drew a white line on a vintage Swiss chronograph dial. And the contrast really shocked me because it was patina, old stuff – and then you bring colour, brightness and modernism. So I was, like, ‘Ah! Maybe I’m onto something’.
So, you started buying up old watches?
I was buying a few pieces and the first thing I did was to minimise the value of them [by changing the second hand] which is stupid. But I found my way back [each customised watch was sold with the original second hand enclosed in a neatly packaged vial, giving buyers the option of reversing André's work]. So, I was only a little bit polarising. A bit ‘fuck you’ and then the good boy that I really am. I’m respectful. Then I start to sell pieces on Instagram. And I realise that I have some sort of creativity.
You love a cheesy word pun – Bad Form for Bamford; Sleepmaster, and so on. Where does that come from?
That's something I've always obsessed with it. At the end of the day, my true self is maybe more a publicist, you know, an ad man.
The name seconde/seconde/ is a triple pun, right? The second hand of watches, the second life of the watches you customise, and a second career for you…
I liked the repetition of it. After the first part of my career, when I was a little bit lost, I was listening to a lot of ‘life coach’ podcasts. One guy was talking about ‘start-up culture.’ Now everybody wants to be a start-up-er. But not everyone is made to be a number one. Not everyone is made to be a leader. And I thought that I was. But the life showed me that I was not. I was like, stop hating ‘the second’! You can be a great second! You can be a great number 37 in an organisation.
Then, in 2019, you took your customised vintage watches to Baselworld, the Swiss luxury watch fair. What are your memories of that?
I had two or three vintage watches with customised hands in a cardboard shoebox. You could say ‘That’s cute’. But I was 38. And I was at a trade fair where people are there to make business. It might look cute if I was 22 – but when you’re 38 with a cardboard shoebox trying to pitch, you look at yourself going ‘What am I doing?’ But I was welcomed on a really nice booth [the Swiss independent H. Moser & Cie.]. And when you are introduced by business people, it looks better than when you are alone. And then you have to pitch [to prospective clients]. And you have 10 seconds not to look stupid. It was a good exercise in humility.
Do you still pitch today? Or is it 100 per cent brands approaching you these days?
I receive a lot of requests. So, I could just wait and just deal with the incoming requests now. But creativity doesn't work this way. Sometimes I have an idea for a brand that did not contact me. I need also to approach other fields where I’m not really known.
How much tension is there in the collaborative process? Presumably not every brand is up for having their logo ‘vandalised’
I don’t send twenty ideas. Usually, I’ve got one idea. And it’s okay if we’re not moving [forward]. I’m not dying to work with [any] brand. I guess I've got maybe 20 potential collabs boiling [right now]. Maybe it will only end with five. And that’s okay. I don’t want the ideas to become lukewarm. The brand can pull out whenever they want.
Are you ‘the Banksy of the watch world'?
People say that but you can imagine it is difficult to hear. Because of the magnitude of Banksy.
I think it’s meant to be a compliment
Okay, I take it as a compliment. Because I want to disturb, for sure. I want to say the thing that is not correct. When a brand is all about Bauhaus, minimalism, legibility, timelessness… I'm gonna make a watch that is not timeless. I can tell you, I'm gonna make a watch that is encapsulating the colour and the vibe of the era, but it’s not going to age well. Because stuff that ages well – there is plenty of that. There are many great designs that I do like. And it’s okay to make stuff that does not age well. You can look at it, and it will remind you of an era. So when a brand is explaining their DNA to me, I let them talk and at the end I say ‘You know that I'm gonna basically do the total opposite of that?’ [Laughs] That’s my ‘Banksy approach’.
When George Bamford first started out by customising his client’s Rolexes, he was served a cease-and-desist letter. Now brands are falling over themselves to work with him. There’s also been a move towards ‘fun’ in luxury watches – Kermit The Frog dials, collabs with Nintendo, and so on. The times seem to have aligned with seconde/seconde/
I’m not asking for the watch industry to become a party. Go in the street and ask people for five words when they think about watches – [you will hear] 'seriousness', [that they are on a] 'pedestal', [that they are a] 'special accessory'. Those watch brands are the King and Queen and I am a buffoon, playing. If the [whole watch industry] goes there then there [towards 'fun'] will be no more opportunities for satire. The stars of Hollywood are serious. But then they go on Saturday Night Live and make fun of themselves. And they look better. I think that’s a good balance.
Do you ever think ‘How did this end up being my job?’ It’s pretty weird
Ah! Yes, it’s weird. It’s a weird job!
You must have been approached to start your own watch brand?
Yes.
Go on…
The world does not need a new watch brand. But my ego is like ‘I want my own watch brand'. So how do you reconcile those two problems? Your ego has to come up with a good reason to challenge the fact that the world does not need a new watch brand. People are, like, ‘We can help you’. And I’m a little bit egotistical – ‘No you can’t’. I’m still looking at this. I think I’ve got it. But it still needs some fine-tuning.
Would it look like your work as seconde/seconde/?
I hope it will be different. But you have to find a perfect equilibrium. When you go crazy people go ‘That’s not a watch’. But when you do a [more typically designed] watch, then it’s the same as the thousands of watches out there. That’s the beauty – and that’s the constraint – of watches.
The stories behind six seconde/seconde/ designs
Zenith/ Millennium Falcon (2019)
“This is one of the first [unofficial] designs that I sold. A vintage chronograph by Zenith that was issued for the Yugoslavian Air Army [Yugoslav Air Force] in the 1950s. So, I was thinking about all the old planes gathered somewhere, getting rusty. And it made me think of the Millennium Falcon – you know, it’s a bit rusty. It’s an ‘aircraft’. So I made the link. I made the link between the Yugoslavian Air Army and the Star Wars universe.”
H.Moser & Cie. Endeavour Centre Seconds x seconde/seconde/ (2021)
“It made sense for them. I proposed stuff that was really contextually relevant. They were erasing their logo [ie: rebranding their watches]. So I was, like, ‘We should put an eraser on the dial’. That collab really showed that I could work on the super high-end [the sold-out watch retailed for CHF19,900 [£175,000]] and I could work on the €200 Timex. I can be up, I can be down.”
Nivada Grenchen Jellyfish Depthmaster (2021)
“Usually, when you are talking about diving watches, they are all about huge sharks or things that are really imposing. So, let's bring up the stuff that nobody talks about. And nobody was taking care of jellyfish! And, also, because you have this idea of Pac-Man, because we call Nivada Grenchen dials ‘Pac-Man’ [some say the indices of the brand’s Depthmaster watch resemble the game’s graphics], so I connected the dots.”
Spinnaker Fleuss Seconde/Seconde/ Fifty Phantoms (2023)
“It was hit I did not see coming. I was not super-aware of who Spinnaker was two years ago. And I tend to forget – when we started the idea of Fifty Phantoms, the Swatch collaboration [ie: the Swatch x Blancpain plastic version of the Fifty Fathoms] was not done. Many people did not know ‘Blancpain diving watch was an icon, blah blah blah’ – then the Swatch collab happened and made the Fifty Fathoms extremely famous [it launched the month before this spooky spoof version]. And then we came out with that. It was total serendipity! I remember when Spinnaker told me ‘Oh, we’re going to make 600 pieces for the limited edition’ I was, like, [incredulously] ‘You’re sure?’ You cannot predict those things. It’s like a baseball player. To make sure you’re gonna make one or two home runs a year, you need to be at bat as much as you can.”
Charles Simon x Seconde/Seconde/ Theo Watch Roll (2024)
“A play on [the Rolex shop window display mantra] ‘For Exhibition Only’. In French ‘exhibitionism’ – it can mean going naked. But it’s also something that we all have in society, to show off a little bit. You want to send signals to your peers. So ‘For Exhibition Mostly’, there was this idea – it’s not only that we are crazy about horology. It’s that we want to show a bit of social status.”
Timex x seconde/seconde/ Loser (2024)
“That’s my contrarian approach to Valentine's Day. ‘What about people who are going to be alone on that day?’ I think I can do something that can empower them. And being a little bit nasty. ‘Anyway, my ex is a loser’. I was surprised [Timex] accepted this idea. Because I was really playing with their name [logo]. I really like the idea that as the finger turns at some point it is, like, ‘loser’. And then it points at you – you are the loser. That’s the beauty of working on something that’s moving.”
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![watches at the 2024 met gala](https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod/images/chris-hemsworth-attends-the-2024-costume-institute-benefit-news-photo-1715099043.jpg?crop=0.668xw:1.00xh;0.167xw,0&resize=360:* "The 2024 Met Gala Celebrating "Sleeping Beauties: Reawakening Fashion" - Arrivals")
